Ep. 021 - Creating Sober Firsts with Patrick Fox
Jun 21, 2023SHOW DESCRIPTION
Have you ever wondered why alcohol has such a grip on our lives, and how we can break free from its hold? Join us for a powerful conversation with Patrick Fox, fellow coach and host of the Alcohol Rethink Project podcast, as we share insights on rethinking our relationship with alcohol and understanding our behaviours to create lasting change.
Patrick opens up about his personal experiences with alcohol, how that led him to coaching men on transforming their relationships with alcohol, and the importance of self-awareness and creating a legacy of longevity.
Society places immense pressure on men when it comes to drinking, which often makes it difficult for them to stop.
In this episode, Patrick sheds light on the challenges men face when trying to quit drinking and the impact of male conditioning. We delve into the significance of connection and coaching in overcoming these obstacles and discuss the 'seesaw of change' concept.
Learn how creating sober firsts can tip the balance in favour of sobriety and empower men to take control of their lives.
SHOW TRANSCRIPT
Craig Spear:
Today we're continuing our Stop Overdrinking series with a special guest, Patrick Fox, who shows us how to rethink our relationships with alcohol. Welcome to Man in the Arena, your go-to podcast for all things related to health and weight loss for men over 40. Here we discuss strategies that will get you off the sidelines and into the game so you can achieve your optimal health. It's time to lead a legacy of longevity. My guest today is fellow coach Patrick Fox, who helps men stop drinking alcohol and feel in control of their lives. He's also the host of the Alcohol Rethink Project podcast, which is full of powerful content. If you want or need to change your relationship with alcohol, you have to connect with Patrick, either through his podcast or his coaching or his project. His work truly is transformational. But don't do that just yet, because Patrick is here with us now and he's about to blow your minds. Patrick, thank you for being here and welcome to the arena.
Patrick Fox:
Yeah, thanks, man. What an intro. Yeah, that's fantastic. I'm really pleased to be here. I'm looking forward. I think we can have some great chat ahead of us, for sure.
Craig Spear:
Absolutely Well. I'm a big fan of your coaching and the energy you bring to this space. I've wanted to bring you on for a while now because I know that the guys listening to this are really going to benefit from what you offer, and I know some of them need your help To help them get to know you better. let's start by telling these guys a bit about your coaching philosophy.
Patrick Fox:
Yeah, sure. So a bit like the title of my podcast and most of the work that I do, right, like I'm the Alcohol Rethink Project And that's kind of my coaching philosophy right, it's about rethinking. Right, we've done what we do and we think that's the only way, but actually, in order to create change in our life, we have to start rethinking some of that stuff. The philosophy, first and foremost, is to be aware and to understand what we're doing, why we might be doing it can be helpful sometimes or not And then start to rethink that shit Really, start thinking about okay, so is this working? Is this what I want? Is this who I want to be? And if the answer is no to those questions, then that's where we get started.
Craig Spear:
I love that. Yeah, and there's a lot of similarities in our coaching. We both coach men. Obviously, we coach a little bit different in terms of the symptoms. I mostly coach around stop overeating. You mostly coach around stop overdrinking. But those are just symptoms, right. You dig deeper and the root problem is just really how people think and the air is in their thinking with respect to either food or alcohol, right?
Patrick Fox:
So, yeah, absolutely, man, i mean and we could probably broaden it out as well All right, like I think, what both of the work that we do in terms of eating, overdrinking, can be applied to like lots of things that we overdo in our lives, right, like whether it's overworking, overpawning, oversexing, right Over phoning, right Like all of these things that create quite a lot of stimulation for us in terms of like dopamine and ways of escaping our lives, probably, sometimes, you know, like, just like checking out or just like wanting not to think or not to feel more appropriately. So, yeah, i think there's a lot of similarities and we all do it, right. I think, on some level, like, we all have some kind of addiction or something that we kind of like are drawn to. Some of those things are more healthy than others, right, like some people are just like really into exercising and you know that can be reasonably good for you. Like, of course, you can still over exercise, but there are some other things Alcohol, drugs, for example which really aren't good for us, man, and they have no benefit to us whatsoever. And so, yeah, i work with my guys that really help them to kind of like question why they're doing these things And you know, for a lot of them, like myself, like it started at a very young age. What started out as a lot of fun or just like something cool to do with the guys you know, over the years starts to take its toll. Man, like there's not a very good return on investment, is one of my clients once said.
Craig Spear:
Totally Yeah. And to your point like this is all part of the human condition that we all have this experience, not necessarily always around alcohol, but we do engage in these behaviors that are maladaptive. Ultimately, They hold us back, They sabotage us. So you mentioned, you know this was something when you were younger and then it kind of evolved. So how did you get into coaching around this topic, around this subject, like helping guys start drinking?
Patrick Fox:
Yeah, I mean there's like a huge question, So I'm going to give you like a long story, short, right, But kind of. I was introduced. I started drinking alcohol from a pretty young age here in the UK, You know. I think the legal age is 18, but people tend to start drinking around 14, which is year 10 in school. That's when, like parties start happening, people start getting interested. So it's a pretty young age is like very cultural as well. I came to a lot of countries, especially in the Western world, but I started drinking from a young age. Like my dad used to go see him every other weekend and he'd take us to the pub And like that was what our weekend was. It's like going around bar hopping, essentially. So I was just like exposed to this world from a very young age. It's funny because yesterday or a couple of days ago I played golf and I went into the bar at the end of the golf game And there was this smell of like stale beer, like from the pumps and stuff, And it just hit me when I walked in there and I was like, wow, like, and it brought back like all of these memories from when I was younger, finally, you know. So, yeah, like I started drinking from a young age, started taking drugs from a very young age, you know like started off smoking weed and drinking alcohol And it just got like harder and harder ecstasy, cocaine and stuff, And like all through my twenties, man, basically. And then in my early thirties, towards the end of my late twenties, I started getting interested in coaching and started thinking about, like here's this thing that I really enjoyed, I like, so I had some experience with it, But I was going out of part in every weekend, man, like I just didn't have that desire to go out in the world and coach. I also felt very incongruent, as I look back now, right, Like it didn't feel very congruent for me as a coach to be able to work with people like that right On their lives, on their mindsets, when I was just going and escaping every weekend, basically. So then, a few years after that, I stopped drinking in about December 2018. Which was, yeah, like four and a half years ago, man, And like that is yeah, And it's crazy that I say that, right, Like to think that I could be four and a half years sober, like even the day before I stopped drinking, I just would have thought, oh, you were absolutely insane. I'd be like what are you talking about? There's no way that's even possible, Because I just dedicated like my whole adult life to this identity of being someone who goes out and gets wrecks every weekend. So then I stopped drinking man And like within a couple of months I started getting, but I felt quite down in the beginning, I would say. So I began to get really curious And I thought about doing coaching again. Right, And I was thinking like I don't wanna look back and regret never having followed this through, like never really given it an opportunity. So I started like getting back into coaching, started listening to the Live Coach podcast, which we're both very familiar with, Like, and it kind of like reignited something in me Like all of this time and energy that had been displaced from drinking alcohol I could now like put into something else And I started like literally pumping it into like coaching and finding out about the industry and like learning, building up my skillset and stuff. And it was about six months into that. It's like, it's such a weird thing, but I was hanging out at the wash-in And I was hanging out at the wash-in And then it just kind of like one of those moments the Tiffany is like I wanna coach men and stop and drink it, And the emotion that came up in me when I thought that was huge man And I just like took it as a sign. I was like, yeah, this is something that really is important to me, something that means something to me, Because, you know, one of the biggest reasons I stopped drinking is because I was turning into the person that I'd almost promised myself that I wasn't gonna be. But I let that hungover dad who just like had no time for his kids, was more interested in going out drinking and was asleep on the sofa on the weekends And like I was that man all of a sudden. So yeah, and then I was like I wanna help other dads out there so they can be better dads, so they can be better men for their partners and for whoever else is in their lives as well. So yeah, that was it, man. And then you know it hadn't been the easiest of journeys. Like I had to get through a lot of my own stuff, man, Like especially around, even just working with men. Like I had a lot of initial challenges with that, Like I didn't feel comfortable being around guys. It was way easier for me to work with women, But that's why I love coaching, because, like, going through coaching and doing all of that work like really helped me to honor that within myself And yeah, so now I have a dude who's absolutely love it Because I was like man, like we wanna connect, Like that is so, apparently and abundantly clear to me. It's like we wanna connect but we just don't have the skill set or the confidence to do so, just because of like or the appels yeah, Being societal, yeah, right, Yeah, we do.
Craig Spear:
Well, i'm so glad you shared that and thank you for that, because I want the guys listening to this to get to know you and understand that not only do you have the experience but your passion behind your coaching, and I think it's so important because I know there's gonna be some guys that reach out to you. Having listened to this, they're starting to rethink their own relationship with alcohol, and so it's really important to build that connection. So, no, thanks for sharing that. It's really important. So, as you grow your coaching practice, you coach more guys. What are some of the challenges, or I guess what is the biggest challenge you see, for men who wanna stop drinking? I'm sure there's many, but yeah, what is some of the main ones there?
Patrick Fox:
Yeah, okay, cool, and I would say how we think we're seen by others is pretty big one, right, like. So, going back to that kind of male conditioning about like speakers week, you know that kind of mentality, mindset that men should just like suck it up and man up And you know, like all of those really unhelpful things that exist in the world, i think that gets in the way, right. It kind of that is related to that whole thing about like connecting right, like we're thinking that we should have to do things on our own, like we shouldn't be suffering, like we should just be able to figure it out, like you could say that's ego in a sense, right, but like I think we are probably one of the biggest things that gets in our own way in terms of like how we see ourselves and what we think is acceptable or not. And then also I think, like frustration, man right. Like getting frustrated at ourselves when we aren't able to make those changes, when we do keep doing the same things, like when we start shaming and beating ourselves up. I think those two things are pretty huge.
Craig Spear:
Yeah, i see that a lot too. Right, like we know better but we can't, seemingly do better, and so then that's frustration creeps in and we think it's you know, the change is never really going to come to fruition. It's not possible. So that's why coaching is so powerful. Is a coach is going to help you sort of overcome those emotions, overcome those thoughts and those challenges. So if you're out there and you're listening to this and you know you're thinking about changing your relationship with alcohol, just know, like that is the power of coaching and you don't have to do this on your own, so to speak.
Patrick Fox:
Right, Absolutely not. You know, and it's so clear to me, like we do want to connect, right, we have a group ourselves, right, we connect with all of these other guys, and that was kind of like my gateway into things. Like men really want to connect, they want to talk, they want to hear about other guys' experiences, but there's this like this layer of shame in between doing that and thinking like speaking of these things, for example, it prevents us. But yeah, absolutely, man, like it's really powerful work, yeah, yeah.
Craig Spear:
Well, i was listening to your podcast and I was actually listening to the 100th episode, so you know, just as an aside, that's a huge milestone. I'm not sure if you know this, but only 5% of podcasts make it to 20 episodes and less than 1% make it to 100. So that's huge Boom. That's a 1%, maybe. So, anyways, your 100th episode is thinking drinking, and there's so many great gems in there, and one of them was you talk about the seesaw of change, and I was just hoping you could explain that a little bit, as it relates to stopping drinking.
Patrick Fox:
Yeah, absolutely. And like this is something that I go through a lot with most of my clients and it's funny because I had a guy just leave me a voice message earlier. He's like, oh man, it's like so good, I'm really seeing that seesaw of change now as well. And for me, like the seesaw of change is like do you have another name for a seesaw over in Canada? Oh, mistakes, Like I'm sure they call it something different.
Craig Spear:
I think it's a seesaw. Oh yeah, I can't think of it.
Patrick Fox:
I think there's another name, But yeah, so like a seesaw, right Like so, you got a seesaw and on one side are like all the reasons that you drink, all that experience, all the evidence you know, like all of the ways that you've kind of like justified drinking to yourself And so, like that seesaw is pretty stacked right Like it's pretty weighed down heavily to the floor. And what I do with my guys as we rethink alcohol, as we rethink how we see ourselves, is like what we want to do is and I'm doing hand movements, which may not be the best for podcast, but you know, like over time, what we want to do is start tipping that balance right Like. So in order to do that, we have to start like loading up the other side with new evidence. I call them sober first man, right Like there's a lot of things that you're going to do in your sobriety that are going to feel like the first time that you've done them going to a bar, going out clubbing, going to a wedding, going to a funeral, right Like there's going to be a lot of things where you probably drunk at most of those right. So it's about creating all of these sober first for yourself. It's about creating new ways of seeing yourself creating more evidence And like, over time, that seesaw starts balancing and eventually starts balancing out And until the point where it like tips over. So that includes, right, like how you manage your urges, you know the communities that you surround yourself with, like there's all of these things that you can do for yourself that are going to hit that seesaw. So yeah, that's the seesaw of change, man.
Craig Spear:
Love it. I think it's such a brilliant concept And also I think it's sorry.
Patrick Fox:
There's one other thing is, like it's also perspective, right, That you know that seesaw is changing. When you can go to the pub, recognize you want to drink but choose not to have a drink, still Right, like that's like your brain rewiring in that moment because, like, you're very conscious of that decision and awareness of what's happening in your brain, right.
Craig Spear:
Yeah, it's such a great concept. It's such an easy way to understand that there's another side to this, right, because a lot of us get rooted in our identity, as you mentioned, like that's the experience that you had And we almost feel like that's the only place that we could ever be. And then you start to see there's another way to think, there's another way to feel, there's other ways to kind of create a new identity and you slowly shift over the other side and eventually that's just where you reside, right, and that's kind of where you're at right. You're four and a half years sober, so you're clearly on the other side of that seesaw.
Patrick Fox:
Yeah, 100%. Well, 100 episodes of talking about stopping drinking like that's going to do it, man, Totally. You know it's funny because I didn't see it as part of my recovery, but actually I don't necessarily like the word recovery but whether, like, actually it's been a huge part of that for me in my sobriety right, because literally every day I'm thinking about not drinking and I'm teaching people about not drinking. So, yeah, pretty cool.
Craig Spear:
Yeah, and then you kind of talked about like being congruent with that, in alignment with your values, and so, as a coach, like this is your identity and I'm. The same way with helping guys improve their health. Like you know, that keeps me accountable in a lot of different situations and helps me assess where I'm currently at with my relationship with either food or exercise or sleep or whatever it is. So, yeah, it keeps us true. So, just kind of shifting gears here. What are some of the common thought errors that you come across with respect to helping guys stop drinking?
Patrick Fox:
I think, really, like some of the most common ones are thinking it helps them with stress, thinking it helps them with sleep. Just actually thought I was thinking that alcohol actually does something good for you. It's probably the biggest one, right? Yeah, yeah, there's nothing in alcohol that has any good for you, right? That said, you know I recognize that you drink and you might think it helps you sleep. You drink and it might help you to forget about shit that's going on in your life, right? But those things are still there the next day, right? You just like momentarily escaped from them. So I think, yeah, absolutely It's like thought errors of thinking that it's doing something for them, thinking it's helping them in some capacity, which in a sense, is true, but actually it's not, because when you think about it in the long term, like it really isn't doing anything for them. So, yeah, i'll start tomorrow. It's another big thought error that I know is quite often right, like thinking that tomorrow is going to be any different than today. And you know, the ways that our brain will justify and rationalize and excuse our behaviour is insane, especially when it comes to, like that pursuit of pleasure, or like changing how we feel, or you know like they're so tired, right? Yeah, exactly, avoid pain, seek pleasure. And then we just become really efficient at it And we get to support ourselves so many times.
Craig Spear:
Yeah, those are really good, And I think someone's going to hear that for the first time and be like oh man, i didn't realize that those were thoughts that I was having, just fact, right, and just the way it is. And so you get to start to tease that out and pull that apart, and then that rationalization becomes less and less impactful. Right, start to do things differently And again that's where that seesaw starts to change.
Patrick Fox:
So one other one sorry, Craig Like and I think this is a really big one is just that you need it or that you have to have it. Yeah, Right, because think about like our essential needs, like our brain thinks we need things for survival in order to survive. But when it comes to like alcohol and you probably notice this for food, I need something sweet or I need to have a drink after work, right, Like your brain thinks that is so, so important, which is why it feels so uncomfortable when you almost feel as if you're denying yourself those things. So, yeah, that's like such a basic thought which you completely will miss if you're not looking for it, But yeah, I would say that's a really big one to be aware of.
Craig Spear:
Yeah Well, one of the things you say in your podcast intro is this podcast is for guys who question the role alcohol plays in their lives, men who want to stop drinking, but they don't know where to start. So what's the first step guys need to take in order to end their drinking, or just change the relationship with drinking, in your opinion?
Patrick Fox:
Yeah, it's a really great question because often chat comes like when it's already been too many things that are starting to cost them in their lives, like too many negative consequences. But I would say, like, do an audit of your life, right. What is the role alcohol is playing in your life? Like, what are you drinking it for? Why are you drinking it? Like really beginning to understand your motivation behind wanting it? Are you just doing it because that's what you've done for the last 20 years? Well, does that seem like a very good reason to continue, right, are you just doing it because all your mates do it? Again, it's like starting to question, like, why do you drink? Like, what do you think it does for you? And, as we've been talking about, right, like starting to then challenge some of those beliefs, like, well, does it really help me relax? I was like, yeah, sure, relax for like 20 minutes, but then I just want to drink more and more. And then I feel anxious the next day because, like, when we start playing it forward, we can actually see that it doesn't do anything for us. You know, it swaps your sleep, get moody, especially like we've got kids and stuff around. It's really not great. And so yeah, first place I start is like just start bringing awareness to like why you're drinking and do you like what it's creating in your life.
Craig Spear:
Awesome, great place to start. So there's been so many gems here today that you've offered so many great insights, patrick. It's one thing that you want to leave the listeners with that they can take away and kind of think about for the rest of their day as they go on their day.
Patrick Fox:
Yeah, how can you be compassionate with yourself? Right, because when you start looking at yourself, like you might not always like what you see. I remember when I first stopped drinking, like within those first few days, i was sat on the sofa and, like all of these memories started coming back to me about stupid shit I'd done when I was drinking. Like all of my regrets, like, and do you know, it didn't feel great, but like it was such an enlightening thing because it showed me like pretty much everything I'd done in my life that I wish hadn't happened had something to do with alcohol. Right, alcohol was involved somewhere, but at that time, like I used it against myself, like it's very harsh and critical of myself and beating myself up. But one thing I've learned over the many years I've been coaching now, right, like is the way that we treat ourselves is really really important, the way we talk to ourselves, and so that all starts with like, having compassion. Right, like, yes, there's going to be things that you might see that you've done or don't like, and you can either go left and beat yourself up and just keep creating more. You can decide to go right and have compassion for yourself and learn from them and move forward. So yeah, like increasing your capacity for compassion is going to be huge and how you treat yourself really, really matters.
Craig Spear:
It's such a great takeaway. There's no way that we can take positive action from a negative place in terms of thinking and feeling. We've got to at least be neutral, if not positive, right, so that's a beautiful way to end this podcast. Patrick, where can people connect with you, reach out to you, how can they find you and learn more about what you're doing?
Patrick Fox:
Yeah, thanks, man. So they can visit my website, patrickjfoxcom. They can find me on Instagram at the Alcohol Rethink project, or they can listen to me and my dog will sit tones at the Alcohol Rethink podcast. Love it man.
Craig Spear:
Thank you so much, Patrick. I'm truly grateful for you taking time to be here and share your wisdom and experience with everybody.
Patrick Fox:
Yeah, nice for a man. I appreciate you, and thanks for the work that you do in this world as well. I think, tweenis, we're going to help a lot of guys out there.
Craig Spear:
Absolutely Well said. Thanks, Ben. If you're ready to step inside the arena and change the trajectory of your health, head on over to the spear methodcom and download my free guide to learn simple and effective strategies on how to optimize your health today.
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